Charge Scissor Prototype 2 Apr 17, 2010

Tom’s had his new Charge ( @chargebikes ) Scissor prototype for a few weeks and I was going to go to Philly this week and shoot photos of it but Juliet beat me to the punch! The new Scissor has a mid-bb and clearance for super fat tires on a 700c wheel. It’s the same geometry, just with a few improvements.

This thing looks beasty!

  • Fred

    This is a complete Joke actually… Head over to Trick Track and see the uproar that Scissor owners are having about charge:

    People have been having big problems with the first Scissors, which has mostly been the rear triangle bending. Charge have refused to replace these as they say the damage is due to grinding…

    We need to think why they have created a new frame so soon.. The first ones already had one, if not the best clearances of all frames on the market as well as really great toe clearance.. It is pretty evident that they have revised the scissor with the new chainstay to account the the strength inadequacies in the first versions. The first Scissors had crimped chainstays as opposed to the wobbly ones this new one has. Charge’s customer service is terrible; they are lying and decieving. Jim from Charge has said that they were 100% confident with the original Scissors…. He has countlessly contradicted himself on the Trick Track thread..

    Why would you create a completely new frame after 2 months of it being on sale just to switch to a mid bb???

    This new V.2 is definitely due to an inadequacy of strength in the rear triangle/chainstays in the first version. People need to be aware that Charge’s customer service is terrible..

  • Fred,

    I’m well aware of what’s been happening with people’s Scissors on Trick Track. I’ve never seen it in person (since everyone I know who has a Scissor never had that issue) so I can’t say why or how it’s happening.

    I will say this though; the Scissor’s been in PR&D for a long time. Ever since Tom got the first Scissor, he told Nick at Charge that he wanted to have a Mid-BB. They finally did a Mid-BB and now, since they’re eliminating the “track crank” crowd, they don’t need to crimp the chainstays.

    So while I don’t know how to answer your first complaint, I can assure you that the non-crimped CS is from having a Mid-BB.

    If you feel like Charge isn’t supporting the scene through warranty’s, I can surely see why people are pissed. Milwaukee, Volume and others have been great with warranties, so it’s a hard benchmark for other companies to embrace.

    Hope that helps? Dunno.. I’m in an awkward position here, as always


  • tim

    i don’t see the bearing seats for the mid bb…

  • They’re in there. Here’s Tom’s in Action.

    He’s definitely got a mid-bb on it.

  • flo

    If tom wanted to have a mid bb from the start, why go to extent of producing a scissor without it and then later after 2 months release a new one with it….sounds very fishy to me.

  • Fred

    Good point Flo.. They would have put a mid bb from the start.

    Yeah, I totally understand your awkward positioning… I just want to more extensively proclaim that Charge are extremely terrible at dealing with customers and entirely unreasonable.

    I think you would be pretty pissed off if you spent money on a new frame and then the rear triangle significantly bent in a very short period of time. As you say, the Scissors were PR&D for a long time, and of course they were designed for tricks. However, Charge’s defence for not replacing a frame with a bent rear triangle was that it was due to a weakness that was a result of grinding. Surely grinding falls under the category of tricks in FGFS. Company’s should not be allowed to get away with giving this unfair treatment to customers.

    They would not create a frame so soon just for a mid bb. Look at the Gorilla, it still has a Euro bb and there has been no problems/complaints that I know of. Taking into account the comprehensive evidence displayed in the Trick Track forum, Charge have created this new Scissor in order to stop the production of the initial Scissors that have had problems.

    Thanks Prolly.

  • Just gonna point out that Fred already replied to Flo’s comment before I approved it. Meaning flo and Fred were aware of each other’s comments. It’s not a big deal, just pointing it out

    Flo, that’s not how production works. At least not in a large run of bikes. Tom got a prototype in the mail and rode it for a few weeks. In discussions with Charge, he suggested a Mid-BB. They had already begun production on the first generation Scissor so It was going to have to wait for the next run.

    We did similar things with the production runs on the Bruiser. As does every company. It’s how things go unless you’re a small company like BMW who can drop a Mid-BB in their bike without making any changes to the rest of the bike.

    Also, NO ONE was going to put a Mid-BB in a bike a year ago. It alienates a large percentage of the users and requires people to upgrade their drivetrain. That’s a lot to ask for the first run of a bike.

    Regarding the grinds. If you grind on your bike and wear down the bb cup / chainstays and it snaps at that point, it’s your fault. Not the manufacturer. Now wether or not the manufacturer wants to replace the frame is up to them. It’d be like putting pegs on a Phil Wood hub and when the axle breaks, sending it back, expecting a refund.

    If you smash your top tube going a grind and the frame breaks at that dent, then it’s not a manufacturing flaw. That’s why companies have warranties. It’s also why they expect to see the frame before they decide to warranty it.

    Come on guys, use your heads. I know you’re upset, but it’s no reason to be picking my comments apart. Take it up with Charge. Not me!

    Get it?

  • Dave

    I ride a charge and love it, I got mine just before the bends/breaking of frames occurred, and Im still fully stoked on my bike. Im with Prolly on this if its as he describes (a dent which causes fatigue/stress, resulting in a crack not a manufacturing defect.) Although I will say that I want the higher bb that I saw on toms new prototype, it looks like it would help with the pedal strike on 26″ and 700cmx wheels.

  • Fred

    Hahaa, yes Prolly we are working together, and both terribly pissed off!! :D

    I am not pissed at you at all, you make fair and neutral comments. I know you agree with me on the warranty situation as it is without a doubt disgraceful..Your blog is the most widely read in the FGFS community, and that is the reason I wanted to comment on this. I want a wider range of people to know that Charge are a deadbeat and irresponsible company. This is still a new sport, with many new companies producing FGFS specific parts.. We should all do our best to make sure companies are doing the right thing in order to efficiently maintain the progression. Companies should not be allowed to treat their customers like this… I hope Charge are fully aware of their reputation that is going down the drain. I for one, will never purchase a charge product again…

  • Fred

    Prolly, can you clarify that Tom has never had a problem with his final Scissor?

  • josh

    if you gind on a bmx frame with a lifetime warranty and the chainstays get messed up their not going to replace it simple as that

  • Tom never had issues with his scissors

  • This whole thing is stupid.People expect Charge to just give them a bike. It’s not Charge’s fault that the rear triangle got bent while you were learning new tricks…. That’s like snapping your deck skateboarding because you didn’t land bolts and being pissed at the skate company for not giving you a new deck. Learn your tricks smooth and consistant and this won’t be a problem.

  • steveisskinny

    speaking of new versions and mid BB. is MKE thinking about a v2 bruiser? :D

  • Fred

    Ronnie, that is one of the most idiotic things I have ever heard. How are you supposed to do a trick smooth and consistent without having learned it?!! You cant just hop on a bike and get a 180 bar first time smoothly. What a foolish remark you made…

  • You misunderstood me, I never said you had to do them smooth and consistent while you were learning them? I said that once you learn the tricks smooth and consistent this won’t be a problem. A lot of my friends have broken bikes learning and trying new stuff, The better they got, the less stuff they broke….. In the thread he said he was “doing 180’s and nose pivots”…I know if I were to throw either of those wrong, a number of things could go wrong. Tires popping the bead, etc… Is it the Rim company’s fault that bent my rim learning hop bars? No, It’s mine because I didn’t do the trick right. You guys are a bunch of babies. Get off the internet, stop bitching, and go ride your bike.

  • andy

    agreed with ronnie. just practice till you get better. you’ll be spending less money and breaking less. but it takes money to have fun, like FGFS

  • a skate board deck and a bike frame are completely different. decks arnt made of steel. and theyre cheap because they are expected to break more often. if you jumped a 10 stair on a board and snapped it you wouldnt think twice but if you snapped your bike in half you would be lookin for a replacement. i understand that stuff breaks when you ride but nothing like that should ever break. i saw the pictures. your entire rear triangle shouldnt collapse from a few scrapes from grinding. thats just not good craftsmanship period.

  • goyo

    I’m sorry but is Tom riding dual 26″??

  • goyo, no.

  • ez

    (I cross posted this on Trick Track)

    There is this thing that human beings do… I do it, you do it, in fact, I may be doing it right now. By being disconnected from other human beings due to distance, technology, etc, it is easier to dehumanize others. You don’t see their face. You don’t feel the same visceral feedback from your body. There is much research to support this: this is why drivers often act so cruelly in ways that pedestrians do not.

    I don’t know the full details on the “Charge Scissor Story: A Chainstay Named Desire”, but this topic has gotten out of hand.

    You have people maligning a company who were not even directly wronged. I understand if Dow dumps mercury in the water and kids start surfacing who have brain damage how this would necessitate a legal advocate or if your Toyota Prius accelerated randomly and resulted in death… bad news all around. Yet in this case the most hateful vitriol seems to come from those who have only read the story.

    Perhaps it is youth (and that is not a crime, it’s understandable), perhaps it is the redirection of similar frustrations or even boredom. I don’t mean to point fingers, that isn’t the point.

    It just seems rather silly.

    Here we are, involved in what is a very new sport and we are lucky to have companies that respond quickly at all to our needs. Look at the Cutter: how many generations of Cutter were there before they decided to make the Thrasher? The Scissor, as I remember, was supposed to go to market even before the Bruiser, so it is a pretty early attempt at making a freestyle bike. Of course, there will be issues.

    That’s the price you pay for being on the “bleeding edge”.

    I was involved in the MTB Downhill/Freeride scene in the late nineties and early aughts and things were much different. I broke a Marzocchi fork that had cost me well over $900 and got no replacement. It was horrible and put me out of riding for a few months. But, I saved up, reflected, realized that in the grand scheme of things a few months was pretty short and I bought a replacement. Sure, I was fuming at first (and Marzocchi did redesign the fork in question, it was the QR 20 system that broke), but then I thought better of it.

    That kind of hatred just made me sour on something I loved and really, it did me no good.

    I have had a few Charge products and have enjoyed them (Soma, on the other hand, I’ve broken nearly everything of theirs I purchased from pedal cages to saddles… but they were not designed for “teh trixoring”). It sounds like they offered a crash replacement discount, and that is really the best you will get. If someone ground on the seatstays or was just launching huge gaps, there are limits to what the bike can do.

    My two cents, and you don’t have to read this and agree with me: take your lumps and live to fight another day. Life is too short to be so bent out of shape about a toy. Really. The sun will still rise tomorrow. From what I’ve read Jim offered a crash replacement at a discount. That is what BMX companies do when you trash their frames. No one I know of has a “completely blind” replacement policy. That seems pretty fair to me, but then again, I was not “wronged” or do not feel like I was “wronged”. I have, as I mentioned, been there before (and I was very broke in those days) with something much more expensive than an FGFS frame (not to say account for inflation in the consumer price index would have put my fork cost at $1175 in today’s dollars).

  • he doesnt need them. his new proto has 2.10 front and back.

  • Vinyl

    Seriously, you want a new frame as a replacement for one you have damaged doing tricks!!!

    What planet are you on. I feel sorry for Charge that idiots are posting this crap on the internet.

    I have broken more frames down the years than i can remember, and all were because i was attempting to do shit that i fucked up.

    If Charge offered a discounted crash replacement frame, then that goes down as good customer service in my book.

    I really cant believe this shit has blown up, kiods these days!!

  • b20btec

    I’ll purchase this frame when it release, if it’s an improvement on a already solid platform count me in. The way I look at it, Charge is progressing the sport. Two frames at a suppose default out of all the one’s manufactured is pretty damn good from a manufacturing standpoint.


    I have a scissor that I’ve owned since the first shipment. I love it and I have a gang load of bb grind marks and chainstay marks. Still straight to me. I hit sets, ledges, park, and a bunch of flatland stuff. I’m still in the learning phase of everything I do and try. Nothing always lands correctly. but still straight. I am diggin this v2 though. The baby doesnt look bad either.

    Do you have any release dates? I don’t recall seeing any date


    whens this coming out? and i heard that there going to have a life time warranty , is that true?